Hip hop - what do people think of it?

[SlimESQ]

Curious to know what people here think about hip hop - was listening to the ipod on shuffle the other day and went from Ty Segall to early Beastie Boys.  And thought, this could actually be a legit transition on certain garage punk podcasts.  I recall hearing or reading that Beastie Boy only wanted to imitate Bad Brains and be a punk band at first, but just did a really poor job of that and their rap/hip hop influences seeped through more.  Still, in terms of lo-fi, youth angriness & energy, and influences, would anyone draw any lines connecting them to punk/garage?  Tough Guy, Whatcha Want, etc. (I think their later stuff w a social agenda totally sucks, talking about early stuff-mid 90s).  Also Public Enemy.  On the other hand there are plenty of rappers who've used samples from punk songs and even tried to cut a few.  And then there's Dee Dee Ramone's rap album of course...

But hip hop in general - new or old school, did you ever listen to it?  Love it?  Hate it?  Oblivious to it?  Any possible links to punk?

[ixnayray]

I listened to a LOT of Hip-Hop between 1987-1992 which is considered the "golden era" of that scene. This was before most major labels figured out the formula and saturated the music market with all the fake commercial gangster rap that still makes more money than anything else to this day.

Back then it wasn't about misogyny and violence. There were many artists out there who were very innovative - The Beastie Boys were the best of the bunch. You had artist's like Public Enemy, The Jungle Brothers, Gang Starr, Paris, The Pharcyde, Boogie Down Productions. You also had artist's like Ice-T who was like a Hip-Hop version of pulp writer Iceberg Slim [it's also how he chose his name]. His lyrics and stories were hilarious. He's collaborated with Jello Biafra, Slayer and Perry Farrell. If you ever get the chance, check him and Jello Biafra out on The Oprah Winfrey Show. There were some other great lyricists like Big Daddy Kane [who did a great track with Rudy Ray Moore], Guru and Rakim.

All of these artists were experimenting and forming something that was completely new and fresh at the time. Hip-Hop was considered the "Punk Music" of the 1980's due to it's DIY ethic. You have to remember how bad the music scene was in the 1980's...

So I can honestly say Hip-Hop has had a very positive influence on me, personally. It opened my eyes and ears because of it's use of sampling other music and i'd also say that in a weird way it's influenced me as a podcaster. Hip-Hop artists would sample James Brown and AC/DC... and sometimes in the same song. It showed me how you can mix things up, come up with something and make it work. Heck, I even snuck in a Prince Paul [producer of De La Soul and DJ from Stetsasonic] track on one of my shows and I doubt anyone even noticed.

I think the problem is that most people who criticise Hip-Hop probably never got to listen to the real hardcore underground stuff. They're really talking about the stuff that dominates the charts. Eminem, Dr. Dre, etc. It's like someone slagging off Garage because they've heard The Hives and Jet.

By the way, I went to a Bad Brains gig once and their support act was a Hip-Hop group called The Goats. Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five supported The Clash. PWEI supported Public Enemy when I saw them. I guess everything's linked when you think about it.

Oh, and check out The Beastie Boys "Paul's Boutique" album, produced by The Dust Brothers who did the Fight Club Soundtrack.

[kopper]

I have a Run DMC record, even though I can't even remember the last time I listened to it. I like Public Enemy a LOT, though, and once in a while I put that (It Takes a Nation of Millions...) on. I also like the Beastie Boys (at least their first few records). That's it, though, unless you consider the Warlock Pinchers rap, which I'm not exactly sure what to call them, but I sure do like 'em. "Where the Hell Is Crispin Glover" and "Morrissey Rides a Cockhorse" are two of my all-time favorite songs.

[ixnayray]

I've been to some great gigs in my time but Public Enemy & Run DMC was probably the best thing i've ever seen.

Public Enemy albums in general have a lot of great production and are always worth checking out. I'd say they are "beyond" Hip-Hop, they're almost in a genre of their very own.

kopper said:

I have a Run DMC record, even though I can't even remember the last time I listened to it. I like Public Enemy a LOT, though, and once in a while I put that (It Takes a Nation of Millions...) on. I also like the Beastie Boys (at least their first few records). That's it, though, unless you consider the Warlock Pinchers rap, which I'm not exactly sure what to call them, but I sure do like 'em. "Where the Hell Is Crispin Glover" and "Morrissey Rides a Cockhorse" are two of my all-time favorite songs.

[Marty Shane, Pacifiction Records]

Before Dee Dee King... The Original Wrapper!

I dig some underground hip hop with sci-fi, spy, retro themes like Deltron 3030, Kool Keith, Arsonists, Dilated Peoples, Bobby Digital a.k.a Rza. This stuff has more of the feel of the The Golden Age stuff that Ixnay mentioned than the mainstream garbage.

[kopper]

Wow, I totally forgot about Dee Dee King. I have that one, too, and I really dig "Brooklyn Babe":


Pacifiction Records said:

Before Dee Dee King... The Original Wrapper!

I dig some underground hip hop with sci-fi, spy, retro themes like Deltron 3030, Kool Keith, Arsonists, Dilated Peoples, Bobby Digital a.k.a Rza.

[ixnayray]

Yeah definitely. I dig Dilated Peoples too. The RZA is probably the most original producer [Hip-Hop wise] working today. Kool Keith as well. Some great choices.

Marty Shane, Pacifiction Records said:

Before Dee Dee King... The Original Wrapper!

I dig some underground hip hop with sci-fi, spy, retro themes like Deltron 3030, Kool Keith, Arsonists, Dilated Peoples, Bobby Digital a.k.a Rza. This stuff has more of the feel of the The Golden Age stuff that Ixnay mentioned than the mainstream garbage.

[FREDDI]

I liked some NWA, Cypress Hill and Wu Tang Clan.

[Mardy Pune]

I totally agree with Ixnayray. The chart shit is just that; it's shit. But the kids keep buying into it and record companies like making money.
I like the early gangsta rap N.W.A., Ice T... A lot of people get offended by it but I think the rappers are just telling it like it is. I think the making of any good rapper though is the DJ sitting behind them. Kool Herc and Grand Master Flash were total musical revolutionaries and I think their attitude was totally punk; "fuck it this is how I'm doing it"

You have to remember that the term hip hop refers to the four corners as Hip Hoppers call it: Rappers, DJ's, dancers and Graph Artists. There's a great doco called Scratch which is mainly about DJing but sorta looks at the other three aspects of Hip Hop.

[ixnayray]

Well said, Marty. I've seen the SCRATCH documentary 5 or 6 times. I'd go as far as to say it's the best music documentary i've ever seen. It goes into great detail about the whole Hip-Hop culture and I think it's really well made. I was pretty fascinated by the whole turntable-ism genre [Cut Chemist, DJ Shadow, etc.] and how they were turning their turntables into musical instruments. Everyone with an interest in music should check it out.

High Lord Mardy Pune said:

I totally agree with Ixnayray. The chart shit is just that; it's shit. But the kids keep buying into it and record companies like making money.
I like the early gangsta rap N.W.A., Ice T... A lot of people get offended by it but I think the rappers are just telling it like it is. I think the making of any good rapper though is the DJ sitting behind them. Kool Herc and Grand Master Flash were total musical revolutionaries and I think their attitude was totally punk; "fuck it this is how I'm doing it"

You have to remember that the term hip hop refers to the four corners as Hip Hoppers call it: Rappers, DJ's, dancers and Graph Artists. There's a great doco called Scratch which is mainly about DJing but sorta looks at the other three aspects of Hip Hop.

[SlimESQ]

Another good act out of the early 90s era - Diamond D and the Psychotic Neurotics. Pure, from the source (Bronx) & untouched by mainstream bullshit. Not that gangster either, if you don't go for the NWA thug style...just rapping about regular shit, especially digging in the crates for records. He has interesting sample sources too.

But another thing that got me thinking about it is this Mos Def song, which references all these white musicians like Elvis and the Stones vs Nina Simone and James Brown, etc. But mainly because listen to what it turns into around 3:50. Growing up in New York I'm sure the dude was conscious of what was going on with punk music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5H3IV1e1Ew

[Alex]

I used to listen to a lot of hip-hip/rap back in college like 5-10 years ago. The "pop" stuff always sucked, but at least I could dance to it. But the rap I was most interested in was always the old school stuff like NWA, A Tribe Called Quest, Run DMC, and the like. I'll admit a guilty pleasure of Southern Rap for a few years, but these days, I've basically given up on all rap music.

As for the old-school Beastie Boys, they were definitely a hardcore band. Not very good, but definitely a hardcore band. Then they moved towards hip-hop. However In 1995, they released a hardcore EP for fun. It was called "Aglio e Olio". It commands a decent price on vinyl if you can find it. I've got it on CD, and it pops up on my iPod every now and then. It's a fun listen because it's not that good.

Beastie Boys were always about crossing genres. Check out their 1996 instrumental jazz album, "The In Sound From Way Out" or their 2007 instrumental "The Mix Up".

[Mike Humsgreen]

Jurassic 5! Listening to 50 cent and saying you like hip hop is like listening to Avril Lavigne and saying you like punk rock.

Sonic Boom 6 do a great ska punk hip hop fusion along with Kingprawn although Kingprawn are no more. The Clash experimented a bit with rap and of course then so did Tim Armstrong, not least with the Transplands.

It's tricky to know exactly where the "urban music" thing wears off I mean Red Hot Chilli Peppers were a punk band that experimented with funk but are now a rock band playing around with funk and rap.

Check out acid jazz, the genre is a generally British jazz hip hop fusion that doesn't have the bullshit of gangster rap and sounds good to chill out to.