the Beatles ... why NOT ?

[Reverend Stevee Ray]

Are there any real reasons to dislike the FAB FOUR ? And I think about

REAL reasons ... not reasons in that way like " I-want-to-be-a-ultra-cool-hipster-

and-I -only-listen-to-sixties-bands-nobody-knows-because-I'm-so-special ".

I guess the BEATLES are ( next to the WHO and the KINKS ) the most 

cool, stylish and awesome band ever. They played in the same league

as ELVIS ... and ELVIS is GOD you know. 

What do you think about ? 

 

[Don]

But isn't it true that all music cross pollinates? Who are my influences? Some I can name but most I cannot.

The first thing I generally play when I pick up a guitar is a certain rhythm I use when playing I've Got My Mojo Working. I know just where and when I learned that rhythm -- it was from Chris Zaloom the summer I played with him in the Brave Maggots. But the way I use it -- the arrangement of the song -- is almost if not totally my own.  If I was to record it would I be expected to give Chris credit? Not formally, but when I talk about my influences his is certainly a name I mention.

Stealing a song or an arrangement without giving credit is one thing, but the rest of this IMO is mostly sour grapes and/or a game not too different from pin the tail on the donkey.

Don't want to have anyone influenced by your music? Play in your room with the door shut.

-don

[RJFait]

Absolutey. Everybody said they were influenced by The Beatles (they were completey inundated with them, how could they not be). They all (including The Beatles) said Elvis influenced them. Elvis claimed gospel as his biggest influence. So by Rockin' Rod's logic, garage and/or psych music never could have happened without... gospel? (bullshit sneeze) There were enough influences bouncing all around that by removing any one of them, (even the damned Beatles) the end product would have no discernible difference. But if you took away all the numerous influence on any one band (including the damned Beatles) that one band would be very different.

Don said:

But isn't it true that all music cross pollinates? Who are my influences? Some I can name but most I cannot.

Stealing a song or an arrangement without giving credit is one thing, but the rest of this IMO is mostly sour grapes.

Don't want to have anyone influenced by your music? Play in your room with the door shut.

-don

[Time For Tiffin]

EH?

That's your logic not Rockin' Rod's.

They were also influenced by Buddy Holly.If he stated he was influenced by his grandad would that mean by "your logic" The Beatles were influenced by Buddy Hollys grandad!!!

DOG DIRT!!!

RJFait said:

Absolutey. Everybody said they were influenced by The Beatles (they were completey inundated with them, how could they not be). They all (including The Beatles) said Elvis influenced them. Elvis claimed gospel as his biggest influence. So by Rockin' Rod's logic, garage and/or psych music never could have happened without... gospel? (bullshit sneeze) There were enough influences bouncing all around that by removing any one of them, (even the damned Beatles) the end product would have no discernible difference. But if you took away all the numerous influence on any one band (including the damned Beatles) that one band would be very different.

Don said:

But isn't it true that all music cross pollinates? Who are my influences? Some I can name but most I cannot.

Stealing a song or an arrangement without giving credit is one thing, but the rest of this IMO is mostly sour grapes.

Don't want to have anyone influenced by your music? Play in your room with the door shut.

-don

[G. Wood]

Everyone's influenced by someome. But some people are innovative enough to create something new from their influences, to rise far above them. When this new thing resonates with enough people, it may be enough to change the world. Thus, maybe we can't really go back two steps and say that Buddy's grandad did anything to The Beatles or anyone after them.

Just a thought, go ahead and shoot holes in it.

[Don]

There is no end to the Game of Influences.  We are all seven steps from everybody. Our twelve note scale goes back to Pythagoras (died 475 BC) and most all of us use the well tempered version which is dated to near the end of the High Baroque (roughly 1750 AD).

Some years ago I played a song I had written for an older gentleman -- a friend of my parents in a retirement community in Florida. He listened, complimented it, and said that it had Indian influences. He'd heard it in the tonality -- something that I, a sitarist, had not. To me it was a totally western composition. The influence was there, inside me.

And just this past week Mike Stax reviewed The Abstracts "Hey, Let's Go Now" album for Ugly Things and referred to one the of songs, "Without Her", as a "surf-tinged rocker." Without Her "surf-tinged"? Yes!  He was correct - and once MS pointed it out I knew just why and how it was so. It was in my own use of muted strings working against the drums. 

By the time "Without Her," a Bonime/Knight original, was added to The Abstracts' repertoire I was totally out of "surf" - or at least I thought I was. But years of playing it (My love for guitar started with the Ventures) meant that it was not out of me. Nor out of Al Karp, my long term partner in musical crime.

And so this discussion, while sometimes annoying, and sometimes eye-opening, is by necessity endless if we really want to get to the roots of The Beatle's (or anyone else's) music. Which leaves me personally back where I always am when I discuss these things...

"Yeah, but do you like it?"  :D

-don

[G. Wood]

I like it.

Don said:

"Yeah, but do you like it?"  :D

-don

[matthew rosedon]

As recorded by Gerry & the Pacemakers?

G. Wood said:

I like it.

Don said:

"Yeah, but do you like it?"  :D

-don

[G. Wood]

Yep, and also, I Like It Like That.
 
matthew rosedon said:

As recorded by Gerry & the Pacemakers?

G. Wood said:

I like it.

Don said:

"Yeah, but do you like it?"  :D

-don

[Rockin Rod Strychnine]

I think the statement referring to me had more to do with psychedelic music not existing without Gospel.  The kind of psychedelia that Pink Floyd did could very well exist without Gospel music but I don't think anything out of Texas WOULD.  Take away Soul music and you really don't have a Thirteenth Floor Elevators getting together and creating what they did.  Pretty much, I think all sorts of Church music has to exist including that of the middle ages even for the Swinging London psych scene.

Time For Tiffin said:

EH?

That's your logic not Rockin' Rod's.

They were also influenced by Buddy Holly.If he stated he was influenced by his grandad would that mean by "your logic" The Beatles were influenced by Buddy Hollys grandad!!!

DOG DIRT!!!

RJFait said:

Absolutey. Everybody said they were influenced by The Beatles (they were completey inundated with them, how could they not be). They all (including The Beatles) said Elvis influenced them. Elvis claimed gospel as his biggest influence. So by Rockin' Rod's logic, garage and/or psych music never could have happened without... gospel? (bullshit sneeze) There were enough influences bouncing all around that by removing any one of them, (even the damned Beatles) the end product would have no discernible difference. But if you took away all the numerous influence on any one band (including the damned Beatles) that one band would be very different.

Don said:

But isn't it true that all music cross pollinates? Who are my influences? Some I can name but most I cannot.

Stealing a song or an arrangement without giving credit is one thing, but the rest of this IMO is mostly sour grapes.

Don't want to have anyone influenced by your music? Play in your room with the door shut.

-don

[RJFait]

Alright, I'm going to have to back out of this now because people are just saying stupid shit that absolutely no basis in reality. If you're not going to bother reading a thread, you really shouldn't comment on it.
Time For Tiffin said:

EH?

That's your logic not Rockin' Rod's.

They were also influenced by Buddy Holly.If he stated he was influenced by his grandad would that mean by "your logic" The Beatles were influenced by Buddy Hollys grandad!!!

DOG DIRT!!!

RJFait said:

Absolutey. Everybody said they were influenced by The Beatles (they were completey inundated with them, how could they not be). They all (including The Beatles) said Elvis influenced them. Elvis claimed gospel as his biggest influence. So by Rockin' Rod's logic, garage and/or psych music never could have happened without... gospel? (bullshit sneeze) There were enough influences bouncing all around that by removing any one of them, (even the damned Beatles) the end product would have no discernible difference. But if you took away all the numerous influence on any one band (including the damned Beatles) that one band would be very different.

Don said:

But isn't it true that all music cross pollinates? Who are my influences? Some I can name but most I cannot.

Stealing a song or an arrangement without giving credit is one thing, but the rest of this IMO is mostly sour grapes.

Don't want to have anyone influenced by your music? Play in your room with the door shut.

-don

[G. Wood]

Glad to see that I wasn't quoted in the the "stupid shit." Just for the record, I thought everything that was said was worth considering, even if I didn't agree with some of it.

[Time For Tiffin]

Don't back out on my account man.

Surely discission/debate/banter are what it's all about,ain't it?

I have read the thread,infact i was the first to reply to it.I simply don't agree with ya statements.

To know what The Beatles changed ya have to know what dross the vast majority of English kids were listenin' too before em......Cliff Richard,Billy Fury,Joe Brown and worse.

Record companies had artists not bands.EMI took a chance and it paid off.The Beatles went huge over here and the kids went bonkers.Every other company went lookin' for their own Beatles on the back of that success.Even Decca took on another guitar band after statin' "guitar bands had had their day"....The Rolling Stones.

Love em or hate em,take away The Beatles and ya take away most of the other bands from the era.

Take away The Beatles success in the US and ya take away The British Invasion that followed.

Take away The Beatles and ya take away the most excitin' time in pop when every 15 year old lad wanted to pick up a guitar and play in a band.

It would have been a very lonely path for Cliff Richard and Billy Fury to walk down from 63 to mid sixties psych (and i'm not sure they'd have made it) without The Stones,Kinks,Animals,Yardbirds etc.And they wouldn't have been anywhere if The Beatles hadn't done it first.

The Beatles changes EVERYTHING.

own Beatles

RJFait said:

Alright, I'm going to have to back out of this now because people are just saying stupid shit that absolutely no basis in reality. If you're not going to bother reading a thread, you really shouldn't comment on it.
Time For Tiffin said:

EH?

That's your logic not Rockin' Rod's.

They were also influenced by Buddy Holly.If he stated he was influenced by his grandad would that mean by "your logic" The Beatles were influenced by Buddy Hollys grandad!!!

DOG DIRT!!!

RJFait said:

Absolutey. Everybody said they were influenced by The Beatles (they were completey inundated with them, how could they not be). They all (including The Beatles) said Elvis influenced them. Elvis claimed gospel as his biggest influence. So by Rockin' Rod's logic, garage and/or psych music never could have happened without... gospel? (bullshit sneeze) There were enough influences bouncing all around that by removing any one of them, (even the damned Beatles) the end product would have no discernible difference. But if you took away all the numerous influence on any one band (including the damned Beatles) that one band would be very different.

Don said:

But isn't it true that all music cross pollinates? Who are my influences? Some I can name but most I cannot.

Stealing a song or an arrangement without giving credit is one thing, but the rest of this IMO is mostly sour grapes.

Don't want to have anyone influenced by your music? Play in your room with the door shut.

-don