Problems With Running an Indie Label

[Erik 4-A]

How many of you indie labels are Broke? I know I am! I put out quality product by bands I love and support, but yest NO-ONE seems to be buying quantities that will support these hard working musicians. I found a few stores that would buy stuff from me when I was on the road, but still, things are rough out there.

What have you other label folks gone through? What works for you? Do you actually get Paid by Distributors? Post it here!

[Andy Motor Sounds]

Hi Erik, I'm so broke my dog left me, i'm so broke tramps give me handouts. Seriously though, it can be tough, I've so many bands I'd like to put out but I just ain't got the money, and any distributors I work with want me to spend stupid money on advertising, but hey thems the breaks of running a niche label i reckon

[Erik 4-A]

Andy, I consider running a label is like an art project, YOu gotta really devote yourself to it body and soul. I have been living it so long that it is just part of who I am. I picked the name Vagrant Records for a reason (long before that SoCal Emo-schmeemo label) I never expected to make a dime on it. If I break even then I am a success. Back inthe 90's it was like that now it is just rediculous.

I also despise Electronic On-line Distribution of MP3 , because you get no tangible product for what you spend for the music (and I like packaging with liner notes and/or artworks) Places like MySpace and and here are Promotional Tools. I know there are 1000 folks worldwide who want what my label has to offer. I just need to find 'em.

Keep up the good work and stick with it. Most of all Keepa Rockin!

[Andy Motor Sounds]

Your preaching to the converted brother, MP3s?? i'm still a vinyl man meself, as I'm sure most of us on this site are. The first release I put out, I spent months on the sleeve notes, I swear to god I sweated blood over that. I know when it comes down to it, its about the music, always, but I really wanna hold that album and read about it too.

between you and me, I was having a bit of a crisis a few months back and was thinking about giving it up, but I couldn't do it, I think I was just having a bad day, but fact is I just couldn't give it up, its in my blood now, I've been poisoned.

You mentioned in your first post about not getting paid from distros, thats not just me then??, I was beginning to think it was karmic revenge for not paying the gas bill.

By the way that Vagrant records emo bastards thing has to suck a big fat one.

[Erik 4-A]

Yeah Andy, I have been battling Rich Eagan and his California Vagrant Records since 1991. They sold their soul to TeeVee Tunes so they could sign folks like the Get Up Kids, Alkiline Trio, MXPX and even Paul Westerberg and Rev Horton Heat to multi-record deals. I have had to deal with lots of confusion (and some real leagal Bullshit) over the years which drained both my engergy and resouces away from the Music I Love and Support here in the Pac NW. Fortunately I have cut my expenses way down to the bone and live for what I do. I had an opportunity to purchase the building my recording studio is located in and that actually kept my expenses down and brought in more income. It was a trade off though for years I couldn't tour or perform live because I was always recording some band for cash. Now the income from the studio (and the fact that I have other engineers working at my studio) have allowed me to put out albums again. I got lucky though. I still need to find folks to purchase what I have in my back catalog so I can get rolling again.

Another issue with being an Indie label is the lifetime of most bands isn't that long. In order to sell enough product by them to break even you have to have folks buy first pressing out right away before the band implodes. I have had so many bands break up right after I press things, that I had to wait almost too long before releasing some products (or not release them at all on CD/Vinyl but CDRs in small runs instead) due to my "wait and see so I won't get burned" skittishness. I know many of you out there have similar experiences like this. All your excess cash gets tied up in "The Next Big Thing" for your label and you worry "Is it gonna happen?" or "Are they gonna break-up" just as I press things up and have 1,000 beer coasters/xmas orniments?

Lemme Know. Post it here!

[TIRC Records]

We don't expect to make any money. We act mainly as a vehicle to help bands promote themselves and get their music out there where people will actually HEAR it. We are not concerned with making money, nor are we hung up on any one format... in fact, we're GIVING our shit away. Seriously, for free (or for a small donation, whatever). The bands sell their hardcopy CDs at shows and on their site (cheap, basically just to cover production costs), and we sell downloads on our label store page. All we ask for is a donation, but people can still download the entire zip for nothing at all. And if the bands wanna press vinyl, or just do CDs, it's fine with us... however they think they can sell their stuff to the public. But in this day and age you have to change with the times or get left behind, so not making (or selling) MP3s online is a mistake as far as we're concerned.

[Erik 4-A]

Yeah,I too give a lot of stuff away to folks as well, but it would be nice to just break even to cover my overhead costs, plus give a little to the bands (other than just products)

I am lucky I own my studio (which in my cheif income) so I don't have to worry about Recording/Production costs.

It seems that is the way things are going these days (sigh!)

Keep 'em comin'!

[THE LAUNDRONAUTS]

Erik, you're the real deal, man! The music world is nothing without people like you and other independents out there pushing what they believe in an getting nothing in return!

We release all our stuff on our own label, Spincycle Records. We try to give people a nice product recorded from a separate just-for-vinyl master, on coloured vinyl, with a colour-insert, CD version included, and we keep the cost low deliberately because we don't want to gouge. But at this point, we have no illusions about making our money back. We just hope people dig it and play it LOUD on their turntables.

Keep the faith, brother; you're a true contributor!

[Erik 4-A]

Thanks Man, I am still putting out cool stuff in 2010/11/12! Howlin' Houndog (me!) PLUS Joey "The Saint" & The A-Men's "Old Whiskey in New Bottles" LP (Dirty Jump&Jive Blues), Ol' Cheeky Bastards (Pogues-ish Busker-Rock from San Fran) plus other goodies from cool bands as yet still to be determined. It's not getting easier though, with lots of "Brick & Mortar" stores closing and distro wanting to sell 10,000 units right out of the gate just to break even against digi downloads. To quote Wimpy form Popeye, "I'll gladly pay you Tues for Record Deal Today!" Sheesh! It is labor of LOVE.

Joey "The Saint" & The A-Men's Records will be VINYL ONLY and the LP will MONO and all-analog (including the cut!) ALL DIY!

Hopefully all you folks out there (left) in your Garage Punk HIDEOUT-lands will support indi-labels and bands that need to sell product to keep rollin'. It is getting pretty bleak out there lately. I'll do what I can when I can afford it, but its never easy!

Keepa Rockin'!

THE LAUNDRONAUTS said:

Erik, you're the real deal, man! The music world is nothing without people like you and other independents out there pushing what they believe in an getting nothing in return!
We release all our stuff on our own label, Spincycle Records. We try to give people a nice product recorded from a separate just-for-vinyl master, on coloured vinyl, with a colour-insert, CD version included, and we keep the cost low deliberately because we don't want to gouge. But at this point, we have no illusions about making our money back. We just hope people dig it and play it LOUD on their turntables. Keep the faith, brother; you're a true contributor!

[Thee Wild Wraith]

Definitely broke here. For all of the work we put into releasing things, sure it would be really cool to at least break even. And we haven't given up on that. But like some others have said, this is more of an obsession type thing. You don't really get involved in making/releasing this type of music for money. I'm not suggesting that you are or anything. I think the best we can do is try to support the small labels that we like. The other part is, you can't give up. The more good stuff you release, the more people should eventually find out about your label and buy stuff from it. Which equals you putting out more. There are some places that have made a success out of putting out niche music, look at Norton.

[Mole]

State Records aren't exactly broke, but cash flow is soooooo tight!! Our problem is that so far we've only put out 7" vinyl, which is super-cool, but so many people are reluctant to take it cos there's no real profit to be made etc., and you've gotta shift so many copies to start recouping. But as many comments on here support, it's a labour of love and I don't believe anyone runs any indie/niche/cult/whatever-you-wanna-call-it label SPECIFICALLY to make money, they do it for the love of the music, and also there's a buzz to having total control over your output. Stick with it guys, the more the merrier!!


Ghosts Run Wild/Thee Haints said:

Definitely broke here. For all of the work we put into releasing things, sure it would be really cool to at least break even. And we haven't given up on that. But like some others have said, this is more of an obsession type thing. You don't really get involved in making/releasing this type of music for money. I'm not suggesting that you are or anything. I think the best we can do is try to support the small labels that we like. The other part is, you can't give up. The more good stuff you release, the more people should eventually find out about your label and buy stuff from it. Which equals you putting out more. There are some places that have made a success out of putting out niche music, look at Norton.

[Erik 4-A]

This makes me Laugh!

http://www.thisistrue.com/picture_this_7215.html

Erik 4-A said:

Yeah Andy, I have been battling Rich Eagan and his California Vagrant Records since 1991. They sold their soul to TeeVee Tunes so they could sign folks like the Get Up Kids, Alkiline Trio, MXPX and even Paul Westerberg and Rev Horton Heat to multi-record deals. I have had to deal with lots of confusion (and some real leagal Bullshit) over the years which drained both my engergy and resouces away from the Music I Love and Support here in the Pac NW. Fortunately I have cut my expenses way down to the bone and live for what I do. I had an opportunity to purchase the building my recording studio is located in and that actually kept my expenses down and brought in more income. It was a trade off though for years I couldn't tour or perform live because I was always recording some band for cash. Now the income from the studio (and the fact that I have other engineers working at my studio) have allowed me to put out albums again. I got lucky though. I still need to find folks to purchase what I have in my back catalog so I can get rolling again.

Another issue with being an Indie label is the lifetime of most bands isn't that long. In order to sell enough product by them to break even you have to have folks buy first pressing out right away before the band implodes. I have had so many bands break up right after I press things, that I had to wait almost too long before releasing some products (or not release them at all on CD/Vinyl but CDRs in small runs instead) due to my "wait and see so I won't get burned" skittishness. I know many of you out there have similar experiences like this. All your excess cash gets tied up in "The Next Big Thing" for your label and you worry "Is it gonna happen?" or "Are they gonna break-up" just as I press things up and have 1,000 beer coasters/xmas orniments?

Lemme Know. Post it here!

[Erik 4-A]

I am having the great debate with myself on releasing what I want to/what is cool/what will sell. It is hard. I would like to get back something of my investment in these releases. I see folks selling my stuff on eBone (mostly promos mailed out for Press/Booking or as Gifts over the years) and someone is making $$ offa my "labors of love", but I ain't makin' sheeittt from it. Free downloads and MP3 rips (fortunately not my stuff) has pretty much taken what was once a cool indie business market into, "What can I get fer Nuthin'" on-line. I buy stuff from bands who come through town when I can, and put out the stuff I wish would be out there, but in this "Downmarket Economy" it is like "pissing in the wind without a raincoat"! It just gets tiresome, once the novelty wears off. I ain't quitting though, because no-one else will release what I want out there. I have some new things that will be "Ultra Limited Releases" (300 units and no more) on both CD and vinyl. Cool stuff! Hopefully someone will dig it!

Mole said:

State Records aren't exactly broke, but cash flow is soooooo tight!! Our problem is that so far we've only put out 7" vinyl, which is super-cool, but so many people are reluctant to take it cos there's no real profit to be made etc., and you've gotta shift so many copies to start recouping. But as many comments on here support, it's a labour of love and I don't believe anyone runs any indie/niche/cult/whatever-you-wanna-call-it label SPECIFICALLY to make money, they do it for the love of the music, and also there's a buzz to having total control over your output. Stick with it guys, the more the merrier!!


Ghosts Run Wild/Thee Haints said:

Definitely broke here. For all of the work we put into releasing things, sure it would be really cool to at least break even. And we haven't given up on that. But like some others have said, this is more of an obsession type thing. You don't really get involved in making/releasing this type of music for money. I'm not suggesting that you are or anything. I think the best we can do is try to support the small labels that we like. The other part is, you can't give up. The more good stuff you release, the more people should eventually find out about your label and buy stuff from it. Which equals you putting out more. There are some places that have made a success out of putting out niche music, look at Norton.